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	<title>Comments for CABO</title>
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	<link>http://www.cabobike.org</link>
	<description>California Association of Bicycling Organizations</description>
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		<title>Comment on Problems with Bike Lanes Striped Solid to the Intersection by Willie Hunt</title>
		<link>http://www.cabobike.org/2009/11/08/problems-with-bike-lanes-striped-solid-to-the-intersection/comment-page-1/#comment-258</link>
		<dc:creator>Willie Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 01:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabobike.org/?p=159#comment-258</guid>
		<description>Yes, this is a problem with road striping, but I&#039;ve also noted that in the past 2 years and about 9000 miles of commuting cycling, that less than 5% of CA auto drivers actually move their cars in the striped or solid line bike lane before turning right.  I really do not think that a solid or stripe really makes any difference.  It&#039;s the drivers not understanding CVC that they must move into the bike lane before the right turn; that is the real problem.  An auto driver&#039;s turn signal once in a while would also be nice! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, this is a problem with road striping, but I&#8217;ve also noted that in the past 2 years and about 9000 miles of commuting cycling, that less than 5% of CA auto drivers actually move their cars in the striped or solid line bike lane before turning right.  I really do not think that a solid or stripe really makes any difference.  It&#8217;s the drivers not understanding CVC that they must move into the bike lane before the right turn; that is the real problem.  An auto driver&#8217;s turn signal once in a while would also be nice! <img src='http://cabobike.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Signal Timing Issues by Willie Hunt</title>
		<link>http://www.cabobike.org/2009/11/29/signal-timing-issues/comment-page-1/#comment-257</link>
		<dc:creator>Willie Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 00:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabobike.org/?p=180#comment-257</guid>
		<description>What really bad about this intersection is the auto traffic on Jamboree has a 55 MPH speed limit, but on the downhill direction is often going much faster.

In Costa Mesa there are many intersections where I get a 3 second green, 3 second yellow and zero overlap on the red light.  Some of these require crossing up to 10 lanes of traffic.  I go push the pedestrain button for my safety and sanity!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What really bad about this intersection is the auto traffic on Jamboree has a 55 MPH speed limit, but on the downhill direction is often going much faster.</p>
<p>In Costa Mesa there are many intersections where I get a 3 second green, 3 second yellow and zero overlap on the red light.  Some of these require crossing up to 10 lanes of traffic.  I go push the pedestrain button for my safety and sanity!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ask the traffic engineer: How are speed limits set? by Traffic Engineer Tatum earns employee of month for January &#8230; &#124; Traffic Engineering Addict</title>
		<link>http://www.cabobike.org/2010/01/30/ask-the-traffic-engineer-how-are-speed-limits-set/comment-page-1/#comment-256</link>
		<dc:creator>Traffic Engineer Tatum earns employee of month for January &#8230; &#124; Traffic Engineering Addict</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabobike.org/?p=238#comment-256</guid>
		<description>[...] CABO » Ask the traffic engineer: How are speed limits set? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] CABO » Ask the traffic engineer: How are speed limits set? [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ask the traffic engineer: How are speed limits set? by Commonwealth Conversations: Transportation: MassDOT State Traffic &#8230; &#124; Traffic Engineering Addict</title>
		<link>http://www.cabobike.org/2010/01/30/ask-the-traffic-engineer-how-are-speed-limits-set/comment-page-1/#comment-255</link>
		<dc:creator>Commonwealth Conversations: Transportation: MassDOT State Traffic &#8230; &#124; Traffic Engineering Addict</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 03:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabobike.org/?p=238#comment-255</guid>
		<description>[...] Ask the traffic engineer: How are speed limits set? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ask the traffic engineer: How are speed limits set? [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Argument Against an Idaho Style &#8220;Stop as Yield&#8221; Law for Bicyclists by Bob Sutterfield</title>
		<link>http://www.cabobike.org/2010/02/03/argument-against-an-idaho-style-stop-as-yield-law-for-bicyclists/comment-page-1/#comment-254</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Sutterfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabobike.org/?p=254#comment-254</guid>
		<description>Any arguments of the form &quot;it&#039;s no worse than what those other guys do&quot; are unpersuasive.

The energy saved by not needing to accelerate from v=0 to v=2 is miniscule.  The time lost by introducing ambiguity at intersections can be significant.

The attraction in this proposal is probably less about conserving momentum and more about skill and confidence in re-starting from a stop, especially if foot-to-pedal fastening mechanisms are involved.  But many cyclists are unaware or clumsy at a Power Pedal start even with flat pedals, which makes them reluctant to put a foot down.  Thus, for their own convenience, they want to roll through intersections without slowing all the way to v=0.

This restarting convenience doesn&#039;t seem to me a strong enough argument for treating cyclists differently from other roadway users.  If convenience were a good reason for the law to differentiate between classes of roadway users, how about forcing cyclists to ride far to the right of a lane, for the convenience of motorists who wish to overtake?  (Oh wait, we already have 21202 and 21208...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any arguments of the form &#8220;it&#8217;s no worse than what those other guys do&#8221; are unpersuasive.</p>
<p>The energy saved by not needing to accelerate from v=0 to v=2 is miniscule.  The time lost by introducing ambiguity at intersections can be significant.</p>
<p>The attraction in this proposal is probably less about conserving momentum and more about skill and confidence in re-starting from a stop, especially if foot-to-pedal fastening mechanisms are involved.  But many cyclists are unaware or clumsy at a Power Pedal start even with flat pedals, which makes them reluctant to put a foot down.  Thus, for their own convenience, they want to roll through intersections without slowing all the way to v=0.</p>
<p>This restarting convenience doesn&#8217;t seem to me a strong enough argument for treating cyclists differently from other roadway users.  If convenience were a good reason for the law to differentiate between classes of roadway users, how about forcing cyclists to ride far to the right of a lane, for the convenience of motorists who wish to overtake?  (Oh wait, we already have 21202 and 21208&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ask the traffic engineer: How are speed limits set? by Andrew Smolik</title>
		<link>http://www.cabobike.org/2010/01/30/ask-the-traffic-engineer-how-are-speed-limits-set/comment-page-1/#comment-253</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Smolik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabobike.org/?p=238#comment-253</guid>
		<description>There is an article at http://www.safespeed.org.uk/speedlimits.html showing via a plot that crash risk is also at a minimum at the 85th to 90th speed percentile, which is a legitimate rationale for setting speed limits there: “Plenty of research has shown that the safest group of vehicles are travelling at or below the 85th to 90th percentiles. Research shows that crash risk alters with speed and this is shown by the red crash risk curve. At the 85th to 90th percentiles we tend to find drivers with above average skill and competence, and this is why their crash risk is the lowest. Above the 90th percentile we tend to find drivers exceeding safe limits and their accident risk increases as a consequence. Note that the ‘average’ driver at the 50% percentile has a greater crash risk than the 85th percentile driver. Below the 30th percentile crash risk is significantly increased and these speeds tend to be used by less skilled and competent drivers.”

Of course, it&#039;s important to realize the caveat that such a relationship is only a correlation, not necessarily a cause, likely applicable only to motor vehicles — actually capable of reaching higher speeds — forming the typical majority of vehicles on the road; it ought not to be used as an excuse to discriminate against nonmotorized vehicles which simply are not capable of reaching higher speeds. It is likely attentiveness, lateral positioning, and positioning relative to other vehicles that matter a whole lot more than speed when it comes to minimizing crash risk; as the conclusion of the article states: “You can&#039;t measure safe driving in miles per hour.” Those driving somewhat higher or lower than the average traffic speed may be safer because they are inherently not following or pacing other vehicles too closely within tight traffic packs; instead, they “pass or let pass” more safely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is an article at <a href="http://www.safespeed.org.uk/speedlimits.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.safespeed.org.uk/speedlimits.html</a> showing via a plot that crash risk is also at a minimum at the 85th to 90th speed percentile, which is a legitimate rationale for setting speed limits there: “Plenty of research has shown that the safest group of vehicles are travelling at or below the 85th to 90th percentiles. Research shows that crash risk alters with speed and this is shown by the red crash risk curve. At the 85th to 90th percentiles we tend to find drivers with above average skill and competence, and this is why their crash risk is the lowest. Above the 90th percentile we tend to find drivers exceeding safe limits and their accident risk increases as a consequence. Note that the ‘average’ driver at the 50% percentile has a greater crash risk than the 85th percentile driver. Below the 30th percentile crash risk is significantly increased and these speeds tend to be used by less skilled and competent drivers.”</p>
<p>Of course, it&#8217;s important to realize the caveat that such a relationship is only a correlation, not necessarily a cause, likely applicable only to motor vehicles — actually capable of reaching higher speeds — forming the typical majority of vehicles on the road; it ought not to be used as an excuse to discriminate against nonmotorized vehicles which simply are not capable of reaching higher speeds. It is likely attentiveness, lateral positioning, and positioning relative to other vehicles that matter a whole lot more than speed when it comes to minimizing crash risk; as the conclusion of the article states: “You can&#8217;t measure safe driving in miles per hour.” Those driving somewhat higher or lower than the average traffic speed may be safer because they are inherently not following or pacing other vehicles too closely within tight traffic packs; instead, they “pass or let pass” more safely.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Bike Lanes and Motorist Right Turns by Brian DeSousa</title>
		<link>http://www.cabobike.org/2009/11/02/bike-lanes-and-motorist-right-turns/comment-page-1/#comment-252</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian DeSousa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabobike.org/?p=143#comment-252</guid>
		<description>Yet more confusion about the law - from a Public Works Director of a city.
http://www.ocregister.com/news/california-226056-curious-know.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yet more confusion about the law &#8211; from a Public Works Director of a city.<br />
<a href="http://www.ocregister.com/news/california-226056-curious-know.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ocregister.com/news/california-226056-curious-know.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Ask the traffic engineer: How are speed limits set? by Bob Sutterfield</title>
		<link>http://www.cabobike.org/2010/01/30/ask-the-traffic-engineer-how-are-speed-limits-set/comment-page-1/#comment-248</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Sutterfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabobike.org/?p=238#comment-248</guid>
		<description>Per CVC 22348(a), any person who &quot;drives a vehicle upon a highway&quot; is required to obey the maximum speed limit.  Per 21200(a), cyclists are included among those drivers who are subject to this provision, unless someone argues that the maximum speed limit is one &quot;which by its very nature can have no application&quot; to cyclists.

If cyclists are subject to that provision, are cyclists&#039; travel speeds required to be counted in the &quot;engineering and traffic survey&quot; required to set that 85th percentile level?

Are there enough cyclists in the traffic mix to make a statistically significant difference in the speed distribution observed during such a survey?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Per CVC 22348(a), any person who &#8220;drives a vehicle upon a highway&#8221; is required to obey the maximum speed limit.  Per 21200(a), cyclists are included among those drivers who are subject to this provision, unless someone argues that the maximum speed limit is one &#8220;which by its very nature can have no application&#8221; to cyclists.</p>
<p>If cyclists are subject to that provision, are cyclists&#8217; travel speeds required to be counted in the &#8220;engineering and traffic survey&#8221; required to set that 85th percentile level?</p>
<p>Are there enough cyclists in the traffic mix to make a statistically significant difference in the speed distribution observed during such a survey?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Bike Lanes and Motorist Right Turns by Brian DeSousa</title>
		<link>http://www.cabobike.org/2009/11/02/bike-lanes-and-motorist-right-turns/comment-page-1/#comment-176</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian DeSousa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabobike.org/?p=143#comment-176</guid>
		<description>I know of a couple of motorists in Orange County who were ticketed for merging into the bike lane too early before turning right.  I believe these were both instances where the bike lane stripe changed from solid to dashed only 50-100 feet in advance of the intersection, and the police were clearly using the solid striping as a guide rather than the 200 feet specified in CVC 21209.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know of a couple of motorists in Orange County who were ticketed for merging into the bike lane too early before turning right.  I believe these were both instances where the bike lane stripe changed from solid to dashed only 50-100 feet in advance of the intersection, and the police were clearly using the solid striping as a guide rather than the 200 feet specified in CVC 21209.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Bike Lanes and Motorist Right Turns by Bob Sutterfield</title>
		<link>http://www.cabobike.org/2009/11/02/bike-lanes-and-motorist-right-turns/comment-page-1/#comment-165</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Sutterfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabobike.org/?p=143#comment-165</guid>
		<description>Alas, cyclists try to overtake stopped traffic on the right even absent an edge stripe or bike lane stripe (solid or dashed or colored), with results in California as tragic as those in Oregon: http://www.mercurynews.com/search/ci_13564329

I see very low motorist compliance with 21209(a)(2)/(3) or 21717 or 22100(a).  Long vehicles wouldn&#039;t be able to make the turn if they started at the curb or edge, so &quot;as close as practicable&quot; for them could be fifteen feet away.  But it&#039;s unusual to see drivers of even normal sized vehicles merging to the curb before turning, unless perhaps they arrive at the intersection on a red signal.  This certainly isn&#039;t an enforcement priority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alas, cyclists try to overtake stopped traffic on the right even absent an edge stripe or bike lane stripe (solid or dashed or colored), with results in California as tragic as those in Oregon: <a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/search/ci_13564329" rel="nofollow">http://www.mercurynews.com/search/ci_13564329</a></p>
<p>I see very low motorist compliance with 21209(a)(2)/(3) or 21717 or 22100(a).  Long vehicles wouldn&#8217;t be able to make the turn if they started at the curb or edge, so &#8220;as close as practicable&#8221; for them could be fifteen feet away.  But it&#8217;s unusual to see drivers of even normal sized vehicles merging to the curb before turning, unless perhaps they arrive at the intersection on a red signal.  This certainly isn&#8217;t an enforcement priority.</p>
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